I hear the word whenever being used instead of when (when recounting what happened at one point in time). Also, I’ll bet diagraming sentences is a lost art.
Diagraming sentences (as far as I know) is no longer taught in US public schools and probably not in most private schools. I homeschooled our kids and taught them all diagramming. It was also a great refresher for me and I had a greater appreciation for it as an adult.
Ha Ha! One of my ex's used to complain about my grammar. I invariably responded, "language is a living thing evolving and grammar is mostly a suggestion."
Haha! Yes, when others (especially those closest to us) complain about grammar, etc., it’s highly annoying and most likely will not result in the desired changes. I’m talking about the written word here and, even then, just basics that everyone should understand. By the way, your writing (from what I’ve seen) is excellent.
I take liberties with the “rules” quite often when I write, especially here since this is where I do my personal writing.
She was a biology major, coming from a science/technical writing perspective, I'm an English major with a poetry and fiction background. It was more an objection to style.
Boo, so petty. Though I love language, what I love about it is that, like climate, it changes. And, I don’t mean “the rules”. “Rule people” end up winning the rule game and losing the influence game. This article is a case in point.
Hi Jack — I didn’t write it in that vein at all. I break writing rules all the time (especially here) by doing things such as using incomplete sentences, which are great to drive home a point in certain instances. And, EVEN as an editor, I certainly make mistakes. My main point is that when people choose a name for their businesses or titles for things like their Substack platforms, it’s not a good thing.
Our language is being distorted and degraded everyday and almost no one even knows the difference anymore.
I’m not talking about colloquial speech or even casual, conversational writing. My point is that people aren’t taught even BASIC grammar now, so they don’t even realize when something very basic is off. Adverbs are one of the most fundamental and basic parts of speech.
That’s all I want to get across. When it upsets people, I can’t do anything about that. Words matter. They matter far more than people realize. I’m all for casual talk and (yes, depending on context) breaking all kinds of rules. But what happens when people don’t even realize they’re doing it? Their message becomes less powerful.
Yeah, I think Chik-Fil-A is just begging to fail. I realize this is an apples and oranges example, but you need to take a course in marketing language. For wvery cringe-tendency perfectionist who can’t read a grammatical misapplication without it costing them sleep, there is an entire swath of the marketplace who will subconsciously write off 100% of your marketing efforts if you don’t sound relatable to that person. The fluidity of colloquialism into light reading is imperative to maintaining an audience. Just as technical writing has rigid parameters, the opposite is true in appealing to the marketplace. Actually, in some senses, depending upon the audience, language can be akin to “baby talk”. Adhering too strictly to a prescribed formula of grammatical rules can measurably lose large segments of the lay audience.
*Runs to check every headline I have ever written 😳
Honestly, I don't think I would have caught that on my own 😂 We all have our grammatical quirks - I recently pinned a Substack on acronyms, which is a 'passion' of mine 😉
Then again, maybe that guy owns a cow named, 'Healthy'... 😁
I absolutely must read your Substack on acronyms. And you made me laugh, Stone! I’m sure your headlines are fine. Also, I never thought of him having a cow called healthy -- yum!
Me too! I loved them all. I shared them with our kids too, so it’s a sort of family tradition. YouTube isn’t good for much, but it’s great for finding videos from our childhoods to share with the younger set.
Yes! Billboards and also those lighted signs affixed to a business building. Barbarians, heathens!
I don’t expect others to write perfectly. Everyone makes typos, which go unnoticed during proofing, etc. I do, however, hope people do their best when it comes to grammar and clarity.
In music, it is said that you have to know the rules before you can break them. The beauty of that weird blue note you just threw in is that it seems blue because it is outside of, and juxtaposed against, the key you are playing in. But you first have to know how to play in a key.
In writing, I frequently break certain rules. I use sentence fragments a lot, because they sound like speech rather than written prose. I start sentences with “But” because it is appropriate to do so in the circumstance. I am mindful when I do it. I hear the voice on one shoulder say, “No, it is against the rules!” But I listen to the little guy on the other shoulder—the one that says to throw those blue notes in. What do you think?
I agree with you! In my writing, especially here, I break rules often. Sometimes a sentence fragment drives a point home with more precision than a proper full sentence.
I love Substack for many reasons, but one chief reason is because it’s where I choose what topics to write and the style in which I write. The majority of the time in my work life, I’m told what topics to write on and the style usually leans toward the formal, especially when it comes to clients in certain industries.
💯. I also appreciated the fact that you mentioned that you do not always write perfectly in casual comments. “Oh, you’re an editor and you made a mistake in that one comment in a social media post. Gotcha!” Yes, that’s right, you got me. I also occasionally dangle a preposition when I am speaking. Got me there, too. 🙄
Haha exactly! I don’t really feel the need to carefully proof my comments and certainly not those of others. Comment sections are meant for casual conversation, even civil debate.
It seems Brits are more conservative regarding language. I once got my paws on the «style book» of a major British newspaper. It contained a quite long list of words titled «This is not a verb». :)
The current version is online – https://www.telegraph.co.uk/style-book/ – but as far as I can tell there's no single list anymore, it has been distributed by letter. It's still an interesting read.
As for «would pay» – it's technically behind the paywall BUT:
- the paywall doesn't get triggered in Brave browser's 'private window with Tor'; I reckon the paywall is JavaScript-driven so other «privacy-minded browsers» might be able to sneak past it, too;
- if it doesn't help, there's free trial.
...so save cheese for the Christmas cheesecake. ;)
It became an earworm, but a motivating one. I started writing yet another book,, but this time from a different direction, hopefully, from the reader's needs. The transcription service I'm trying is called ollie.ai, so the earworm, Lolly, Lolly, Lolly get your adverbs here was motivating me to get ack to editing the transcripts on ollie.ai.
I would be interested in a few early readers if interested. I need to edit a bit more before the opening chapters/premise will be set up. Edit/addition - things I say more than I realized "you know". ;-)
I try to be so careful, because bad grammar loses me when I read. Typos I get, (oh gosh, now I am paranoid about writing to you) but 'they' have deliberately dumbed down everything. If it can be said in 3 words or less you will not lose your audience. Haha. Yeah, I don't want that audience. Ooongawa. To be fair, when you sign up for my Stack, you are warned there will be issues with run on sentences and so forth. I love my thesaurus!
I don’t expect others to be absolutely perfect, especially those who aren’t writers and editors by profession. From what I’ve seen, your writing is very clear and engaging. 😘
Ha! I’m a big proponent of the oxford comma. In my school, they taught both were correct, which never made sense to me. I read Elements of Style several years ago. I think back in 2011.
I’d love to find a good diagramming book with exercises, etc., but have yet to succeed in finding one.
I hear the word whenever being used instead of when (when recounting what happened at one point in time). Also, I’ll bet diagraming sentences is a lost art.
Diagraming sentences (as far as I know) is no longer taught in US public schools and probably not in most private schools. I homeschooled our kids and taught them all diagramming. It was also a great refresher for me and I had a greater appreciation for it as an adult.
Mm I am rusty. Did not google. Getting lazy.
Ha Ha! One of my ex's used to complain about my grammar. I invariably responded, "language is a living thing evolving and grammar is mostly a suggestion."
Haha! Yes, when others (especially those closest to us) complain about grammar, etc., it’s highly annoying and most likely will not result in the desired changes. I’m talking about the written word here and, even then, just basics that everyone should understand. By the way, your writing (from what I’ve seen) is excellent.
I take liberties with the “rules” quite often when I write, especially here since this is where I do my personal writing.
Thanks!
She was a biology major, coming from a science/technical writing perspective, I'm an English major with a poetry and fiction background. It was more an objection to style.
Boo, so petty. Though I love language, what I love about it is that, like climate, it changes. And, I don’t mean “the rules”. “Rule people” end up winning the rule game and losing the influence game. This article is a case in point.
Hi Jack — I didn’t write it in that vein at all. I break writing rules all the time (especially here) by doing things such as using incomplete sentences, which are great to drive home a point in certain instances. And, EVEN as an editor, I certainly make mistakes. My main point is that when people choose a name for their businesses or titles for things like their Substack platforms, it’s not a good thing.
Our language is being distorted and degraded everyday and almost no one even knows the difference anymore.
I’m not talking about colloquial speech or even casual, conversational writing. My point is that people aren’t taught even BASIC grammar now, so they don’t even realize when something very basic is off. Adverbs are one of the most fundamental and basic parts of speech.
That’s all I want to get across. When it upsets people, I can’t do anything about that. Words matter. They matter far more than people realize. I’m all for casual talk and (yes, depending on context) breaking all kinds of rules. But what happens when people don’t even realize they’re doing it? Their message becomes less powerful.
Yeah, I think Chik-Fil-A is just begging to fail. I realize this is an apples and oranges example, but you need to take a course in marketing language. For wvery cringe-tendency perfectionist who can’t read a grammatical misapplication without it costing them sleep, there is an entire swath of the marketplace who will subconsciously write off 100% of your marketing efforts if you don’t sound relatable to that person. The fluidity of colloquialism into light reading is imperative to maintaining an audience. Just as technical writing has rigid parameters, the opposite is true in appealing to the marketplace. Actually, in some senses, depending upon the audience, language can be akin to “baby talk”. Adhering too strictly to a prescribed formula of grammatical rules can measurably lose large segments of the lay audience.
*Runs to check every headline I have ever written 😳
Honestly, I don't think I would have caught that on my own 😂 We all have our grammatical quirks - I recently pinned a Substack on acronyms, which is a 'passion' of mine 😉
Then again, maybe that guy owns a cow named, 'Healthy'... 😁
I absolutely must read your Substack on acronyms. And you made me laugh, Stone! I’m sure your headlines are fine. Also, I never thought of him having a cow called healthy -- yum!
Cool. I didn't discover You Tube until long after my kids were grown and out on their own.
Gluck, I loved that Lolly cartoon as a kid. Thanks for the stroll down memory lane.
Me too! I loved them all. I shared them with our kids too, so it’s a sort of family tradition. YouTube isn’t good for much, but it’s great for finding videos from our childhoods to share with the younger set.
Or healthfully. It’s still an adverb, but is clearer because it’s closer to the way we speak.
Healthfully could work, yes. I prefer the (once common 😉) healthily, but I wouldn’t scoff at the former.
Indubitablyyyy... 🎶
Haha!
I was a professional editor/proofreader for many years. I am right there with you!
Then I KNOW you understand! Haha
The billboards are what get me the most—not only is there an (easily avoidable) error in ad copy, but it's 20 feet tall!
These companies can clearly afford to hire an editor, but they choose not to do so. Barbarians.
Yes! Billboards and also those lighted signs affixed to a business building. Barbarians, heathens!
I don’t expect others to write perfectly. Everyone makes typos, which go unnoticed during proofing, etc. I do, however, hope people do their best when it comes to grammar and clarity.
I would like your opinion on something…
In music, it is said that you have to know the rules before you can break them. The beauty of that weird blue note you just threw in is that it seems blue because it is outside of, and juxtaposed against, the key you are playing in. But you first have to know how to play in a key.
In writing, I frequently break certain rules. I use sentence fragments a lot, because they sound like speech rather than written prose. I start sentences with “But” because it is appropriate to do so in the circumstance. I am mindful when I do it. I hear the voice on one shoulder say, “No, it is against the rules!” But I listen to the little guy on the other shoulder—the one that says to throw those blue notes in. What do you think?
I agree with you! In my writing, especially here, I break rules often. Sometimes a sentence fragment drives a point home with more precision than a proper full sentence.
I love Substack for many reasons, but one chief reason is because it’s where I choose what topics to write and the style in which I write. The majority of the time in my work life, I’m told what topics to write on and the style usually leans toward the formal, especially when it comes to clients in certain industries.
Yes! Though I am actually trying to make Substack into my work life 😁
💯. I also appreciated the fact that you mentioned that you do not always write perfectly in casual comments. “Oh, you’re an editor and you made a mistake in that one comment in a social media post. Gotcha!” Yes, that’s right, you got me. I also occasionally dangle a preposition when I am speaking. Got me there, too. 🙄
Haha exactly! I don’t really feel the need to carefully proof my comments and certainly not those of others. Comment sections are meant for casual conversation, even civil debate.
Civil debate? Imagine that…
It seems Brits are more conservative regarding language. I once got my paws on the «style book» of a major British newspaper. It contained a quite long list of words titled «This is not a verb». :)
Hahahaha! I would PAY to read that, Rat! (That rhymed...and stuff.
The current version is online – https://www.telegraph.co.uk/style-book/ – but as far as I can tell there's no single list anymore, it has been distributed by letter. It's still an interesting read.
As for «would pay» – it's technically behind the paywall BUT:
- the paywall doesn't get triggered in Brave browser's 'private window with Tor'; I reckon the paywall is JavaScript-driven so other «privacy-minded browsers» might be able to sneak past it, too;
- if it doesn't help, there's free trial.
...so save cheese for the Christmas cheesecake. ;)
Got it! Thank you so much. You’re not so “ratty” after all 😉
Will you edit my substacks? I don't know a dangling participle from a dangling modifier.
Charles, you flatter me, darling. I LOVE editing and I love helping people, so...maybe? Although, you’re awesome!
OK, we'll see. I'll move a few along and let you read them. :)
Absolutely! If you need my personal email, let me know.
I sidestep things that sound awkward ->
~ For more information on how to eat well to live longer, see my Substack!
;-)
Indeed! You KNOW I promote you whenever I can, darling!
Thanks - I was joking - rewriting the phrase with 'well' instead of healthy or healthily.
I know you were joking! You don’t often share your dry wit with us, but when you do, it’s spot on.
Thanks Samantha!
You’re so welcome, Jennifer!
It became an earworm, but a motivating one. I started writing yet another book,, but this time from a different direction, hopefully, from the reader's needs. The transcription service I'm trying is called ollie.ai, so the earworm, Lolly, Lolly, Lolly get your adverbs here was motivating me to get ack to editing the transcripts on ollie.ai.
I would be interested in a few early readers if interested. I need to edit a bit more before the opening chapters/premise will be set up. Edit/addition - things I say more than I realized "you know". ;-)
I try to be so careful, because bad grammar loses me when I read. Typos I get, (oh gosh, now I am paranoid about writing to you) but 'they' have deliberately dumbed down everything. If it can be said in 3 words or less you will not lose your audience. Haha. Yeah, I don't want that audience. Ooongawa. To be fair, when you sign up for my Stack, you are warned there will be issues with run on sentences and so forth. I love my thesaurus!
And that’s ok, Sadie-girl! I hesitated even posting this, but it started to bother me so much, I couldn’t help it.
Bring back Warriner’s Grammar! Time to make some of these little snowflakes cry as they diagram sentences!
Yes! I made my kids diagram sentences when we homeschooled. They loved it!
😉
I don’t expect others to be absolutely perfect, especially those who aren’t writers and editors by profession. From what I’ve seen, your writing is very clear and engaging. 😘
Ha! I’m a big proponent of the oxford comma. In my school, they taught both were correct, which never made sense to me. I read Elements of Style several years ago. I think back in 2011.
I’d love to find a good diagramming book with exercises, etc., but have yet to succeed in finding one.